Transcript of Ambassador Fu Cong’s Interview with CGTN

2024-06-10 18:08  Print

(Left: Liu Xin, anchor of CGTN; Right: Fu Cong, Permanent Representative of China to the UN


On June 9, 2024, Ambassador Fu Cong, Permanent Representative of China to the United Nations, took an exclusive interview with "The Point with LIU Xin", one of the main current affairs programs on CGTN. Below is the transcript of the interview:

CGTN: Ambassador Fu, welcome to this special edition of The Point. Always a pleasure to have you. Last time we talked, you were the head of the Chinese Mission to the EU in Brussels. You have been transferred to New York since April 16, less than two months ago. Congratulations Ambassador Fu and thank you for granting us your first sit-down interview in your new capacity.

Fu Cong: Thank you Liu Xin for having me. Good evening from New York. It is really great to see you again on this program.

CGTN: It's a pleasure to have you on the show. So Ambassador Fu, the International Day for Dialogue among Civilizations, lots of big ideas, and it was adopted however by consensus at the UN General Assembly last Friday. Where did the idea come from? And why did China propose this International Day?

Fu Cong: First, thank you very much for raising the question. Indeed, that was a major Chinese diplomatic initiative. I'm very glad, and we are very proud, that we have delivered. As you just said, last Friday the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted by consensus a resolution proposed by the Chinese delegation. The main theme of that resolution is to advocate the respect for the diversity of civilizations, and call for the promotion of dialogue, on an equal footing, among civilizations, and for the mutual learning from each other. I think this is a very significant resolution. As you said, this resolution designates June 10 as the International Day for Dialogue among Civilizations. I want to emphasize that this is very much in line with the Global Civilization Initiative proposed by President Xi Jinping last year.

The reason we put forward this resolution is that if you look around the world, you see a lot of disputes, a lot of conflicts or even wars, and also there is a surge of intolerance, extremism and populism. All these can find their roots in the differences or the lack of understanding among cultures and religions. So we do believe that it is important to have dialogue and mutual respect among civilizations. This, in our view, will make the world much more peaceful. That's the rationale behind that resolution.

CGTN: Is this an answer to Huntington's Clash of Civilizations theory and those in the West peddling an inevitable clash among civilizations?

Fu Cong: Indeed, we do not believe in the inevitability of a clash of civilizations, but we do see that there are dangers that may lead to such a situation. And that's the reason why we believe that dialogue on an equal footing, in order to reduce prejudice and in order to enhance mutual understanding, is so important.

CGTN: Does China believe that now is the time to renew this call? Because this is not the first time that proposals for dialogue among civilizations were tabled. We understand there were previous initiatives by other countries, for instance, by former Iranian leader Khatami calling for an international year of that. But that's in the early 2000s. Why is China renewing this call now?

Fu Cong: As I said, we do believe that this is a whole process. Other nations are also advocating this idea. And in our view, the angle of civilization is a very potent angle that can promote mutual understanding. We want to add our voices and add our efforts to the already gathering campaign for more dialogue and more understanding among civilizations. Of course, China is not the first one to propose it. But at this critical juncture, we do believe that it is important that the world focus or refocus its attention on this crucial issue.

CGTN: Well, you talked about the role of China in the speech about this proposal. You said that the proposal reflects China's firm support for multilateralism and the work of the United Nations, as well as China's responsible role as a major country amid once-in-a-century changes. So in the next few years, you will be standing there representing China. How exactly does China position itself at the United Nations?

Fu Cong: China is a strong advocate of multilateralism and a strong supporter of the United Nations. This is well known. It is one of the underlying principles of Chinese foreign policy. And then we also see ourselves as part of the Global South. But when we talk about the Global South, it is not meant to be an alternative to the West. Rather, it is our view that all parties from around the world can join the efforts to face the mounting challenges. 

We see ourselves as part of the Global South because of our similar historical experiences, our similar interests, and also our common call for world peace, and in particular in the case of the Global South, the call for development. That is a crucial tenet of Chinese foreign policy. China has been advocating here in the United Nations that development should be put at the center of the UN work. We have been advocating this, and we have been doing quite a lot. I'm sure you're also aware of another initiative from President Xi Jinping, which is the Global Development Initiative. This has been widely supported. Actually, one of the first events I attended was to preside over a Group of Friends meeting of the Global Development Initiative. So that is what we are doing here in the United Nations.

CGTN: Of course, some of the core issues there are very polarized. Let's say, countries have very polarized opinions, and I mean the Palestinian-Israeli conflict at this moment. Unfortunately the word that we hear very often is the word veto when it comes to this issue, the most recent one being the US veto on Palestine’s full UN membership. Actually, since the current conflict broke out, the US has used its veto five times, and sometimes single-handedly concerning resolutions on Gaza. But China has also used its veto twice and China abstained once. People would wonder, is there a difference between China's veto and the US vetoes?

Fu Cong: Yes, of course, there is a fundamental difference. This is the difference between the United States and the majority of the Security Council membership including China. The key issue is whether we should call for or even impose an immediate and sustainable ceasefire in Gaza. We all see the harrowing pictures on TV. I think it is the overwhelming call to end the collective punishment by the Israeli Government of the Palestinian people. Unfortunately, the US has on several occasions vetoed Security Council resolutions that are calling for an immediate and sustainable ceasefire, and that is the key issue. 

On the part of China's veto, China vetoed the resolution proposed by the United States exactly because that resolution did not contain the demand for an immediate ceasefire. Actually that veto of China paved the way for a more significant resolution, which called for the imposition of a ceasefire in Gaza. And because of the pressure from the international community, we were happy to see that the United States did not veto that one, the number of which is 2728. Unfortunately, immediately after that resolution was adopted, the United States said that it was not legally binding. That was really a sad moment for the international community.

CGTN: Is it legally binding? Are Security Council resolutions legally binding?

Fu Cong: I think there is no doubt that the Security Council resolutions are binding. There is not even a shred of doubt on that issue.

CGTN: Why did the United States say that it's not?

Fu Cong: Well, they need to explain themselves to the whole world. Actually, the whole world is asking the question: why did the United States, after allowing this resolution to pass, then say that it does not have legal binding force? 

Of course, this is not a simple legalistic question. What they want to do is to protect the Israeli Government in its war efforts there. And we do hope that the US can amend its course and join the overwhelming majority of the international community and use its influence on Israel in order to stop the war.

CGTN: However, it seems that at this moment, the United Nations Security Council at least is in some kind of a deadlock because of the very strong stance of the United States. The UN Security Council has only passed three resolutions on the conflict since it broke out last October up to the end of May. Could the Council do more? Is it not able to take meaningful actions or have meaningful resolutions to really make a difference on the ground?

Fu Cong: We all know that the main responsibility of the Security Council is to maintain world peace and to deal with security issues. Of course, the Security Council could have done more, and should have done more I would say. And that's why we have been urging the US to play its proper role and shoulder proper responsibility in maintaining world peace, and join all other members of the Security Council in calling for an immediate and sustainable ceasefire in order to alleviate the sufferings of the innocent people in Gaza.

If you look at the history of the Security Council, the Security Council as you said has passed three resolutions in a short period of eight months. Actually, that number is not very low. Let's face it. But at the same time, what is most important is that these resolutions need to be implemented. And that is the key issue.

CGTN: What else can the Security Council do facing these kinds of obstacles? Because we're hearing for instance the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations talking about the war on Gaza being one of a lifetime.

Fu Cong: I think it is important that the Security Council keep the pressure on Israel and the United States as well in order to have an immediate ceasefire. That is the key word. We repeated this several times, even in the last few minutes. I think that is the key thing, because as I said to the foreign journalists, life is in the balance. We really need to take immediate action. We are aware that some negotiations are ongoing, and we do hope to see some quick results. Because we cannot wait even for another single day. It is really devastating to see so many innocent people, including women and children, being killed by these air bombardments and artillery fires of the Israeli forces.

CGTN: Speaking of these bombardments, I have this question and I'm sure some people will be wondering. Look, China issued a joint statement with Arab countries at the end of May, during which China condemned Israel's occupation of Gaza and its aggression in Rafah. China also condemned the US veto on Palestine’s full membership. However, on the issue of Ukraine, when the West has been pressuring China to condemn Russia, China has been very careful not to use that word, although saying China does respect every country's sovereignty and territorial integrity. How does China decide when to use the word condemn and when not?

Fu Cong: Each case is different from the other. I think we need to make the assessment and formulate our policies according to the merits of each case. These two cases are often mentioned together, but actually there are some differences to them. And I think that it's only natural because these are two separate events. As far as China's policy is concerned, there is a common thread underlying our position vis-a-vis these two issues, which is the respect for the UN Charter, and also equally importantly, the call for an immediate ceasefire, and a negotiated solution to the conflict.

I have explained our position on the Gaza issue just now. On the Ukrainian issue, I think China's position is quite consistent. We call for a ceasefire, and we also call for a negotiated solution. China has been making a lot of efforts and I’m sure people are aware of the four points that President Xi Jinping made very early on in the conflict, that is, the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries must be respected, the purposes and principles of the UN Charter must be fully observed, the legitimate security concerns of all countries must be taken seriously, and all efforts that are conducive to the peaceful settlement of the crisis must be supported. Recently, China and Brazil issued a six-point consensus, which outlines in further details our common positions. China is ready to facilitate peace. And China is ready to make our contribution to the international efforts in putting an end to the conflict itself.

CGTN: Well, let's continue to talk about the differences among major P5 countries. We've seen many cases where it seems that there is a direct conflict between the positions of the US-led West and its allies and China together with other Global South countries or developing countries, including Russia. On the outer space exploration for instance, we've seen resolutions tabled by the United States not adopted and then amendments tabled by China and Russia not adopted. Are there two blocs at the UN Security Council kind of forming and is there a kind of a deadlock developing within at least the UN Security Council preventing cooperation among major countries?

Fu Cong: Well first, let me say that I do not want to describe the state of play at the Security Council from the lens of bloc confrontation. That is something we want to avoid not only at the Security Council, it is also one of the key principles of Chinese foreign policy, that we should try to avoid as much as we can bloc confrontation. We do not want to see the world going back to the Cold War years.

CGTN: China seems to be very close to Russia. And that's why a lot of media, a lot of politicians and pundits are describing Russia as a de-facto ally of China. Does China pursue that?

Fu Cong: To put it simply, we pursue a non-aligned policy. With respect to Russia, we are good partners, but we are not allies. And our relationship does not target any third country. We develop our relations independently.

Coming back to the Security Council, as I said, we do not want to see the Security Council from the perspective of bloc confrontation. But at the same time, I have to say that the Security Council is becoming more and more politicized, and there is more confrontation and less consultation. People have asked me about my first impression of the Security Council. I said that we need to have more consultation instead of confrontation.

CGTN: How do you plan to promote consultation, for instance, on outer space, on AI governance? There will be differences between China and the US-led West. How are you going to promote consultation, even cooperation?

Fu Cong: At the United Nations, it is not China versus the United States. It is too simplistic, so we do not see our work through that lens. Actually, China and the United States have cooperated on a wide range of issues. Just now, you mentioned AI. That is an area that China and the US have been cooperating. You may have heard that China co-sponsored a resolution on AI proposed by the United States. And China is working on our own resolution on AI emphasizing the capacity building, especially for developing countries. We are working first and foremost with our friends and partners in developing countries, but also with Western countries including the United States. And we do hope that they can join us in adopting, by consensus again, a resolution on the capacity building related to AI.

CGTN: That's good news. I hope there is more good news like that. But in terms of UNGA Resolution 2758, which is very important to China, it seems there are some strong contentions going on. A senior US State Department official recently openly challenged UNGA Resolution 2758 in late April. He said for instance that it doesn't constitute a UN taking and institutional position on the so-called political status of Taiwan. But the spokesperson of the Secretary-General of the United Nations had this to say on May 23. Let's take a listen.

[UN Spokesperson: On the issue of China, we are guided by the General Assembly Resolution of 1971. (And what does that mean in this context) Well it means in terms of our standing on Taiwan as a province of China.]

So it seems that the United Nations is very clear about Taiwan being a province of China. Why do you think the US is trying to say that that resolution doesn't represent the UN position on the question of Taiwan?

Fu Cong: Indeed, the UN has adopted a very clear-cut position that Taiwan is part of China. Actually, Taiwan being part of China is a historical fact. From days immemorial, Taiwan has been part of China. So there should not be any question. What Resolution 2758 resolved was the legal representation at the United Nations. The United Nations, by that resolution, restored the legitimate seat to the People's Republic of China, and at the same time expelled the representatives of the Taiwan authorities. It says very clearly that the People’s Republic of China represents the entirety of China. And that has been the consistent position of the UN, as we have heard.

As to why the US, after so many years, has come up with these irresponsible and misrepresented remarks, you need to ask them. But my guess is that they are trying to encourage and abet the separatist tendencies on the island. The ultimate objective is to use Taiwan as a pawn or leverage in their efforts to contain the rise of China. I think that is the ultimate objective. But of course, as you can imagine, this misinterpretation of Resolution 2758 has been rejected resoundingly. So people should not be taken in by this false narrative of the United States.

CGTN: So let's end on a more personal note. Since your arrival at the United Nations, you have addressed 32 UN meetings in less than two months time, not including the speeches given by your two deputies. It seems that you're very busy. What is your impression? Why so many speeches to deliver there? What's expected of China at this moment?

Fu Cong: Actually, I have been here for a little over 50 days, less than two months after I arrived on April 16. And in the past 50 days, my colleagues have counted that I have attended more than 120 meetings and events. It is indeed a very hectic pace. But I have a very strong team. They helped me a lot. With a strong team I don't feel too much pressure, or at least they have helped reduce some pressure.

And on a more serious note, after my arrival here, I was actually overwhelmed by the warmth that has been extended to me by the colleagues from other member states of the United Nations and the Secretariat. But the reason they are so warm to me is not because of me myself. It is because of China. The Secretary-General himself received my credentials on the same day of my arrival. That was quite a rare arrangement. We highly appreciate that. It demonstrates the importance that the international community attaches to the role of China. It also shows their high expectations of China’s role. As far as I'm concerned, that is not only an honor, but also heavy responsibilities.

I will be guided by President Xi Jinping’s concept of the building of a global community with a shared future, and also the three major initiatives, the Global Development Initiative, Global Security Initiative, and Global Civilization Initiative. These are the guiding principles for my work.